Called to Action

if Google is choosing a snippet
from your article to feature in the

AI overview, while you know,
yes, it might, and it probably will likely

result in fewer visits to your website,
it means you're doing your job.

You know, at the end of the day
like that, it's showing that your content

is being recognized
as the most helpful, the most impactful.

And so that at the end of the day,
shows that, you know, you are connecting

with your audience
in the ways that you should be

and answering their questions
and solving their needs.

So it's kind of,
you know, it's a balancing act.

You take the good with the bad

Hello, fellow marketers and listeners.

Thanks for tuning in
to this episode of Call to Action.

I'm Janet Mesh,
CEO of Aimtal and host of the show.

And very excited to have us
two special guests with us today,

my co-host Tucker and our, senior

content manager, Emily Desrosiers of Aimtal.

So I'll introduce them in a few moments,
but just real quick to remind you,

what call to action is.

So in each episode, we analyze and discuss
the latest trends in research

in B2B marketing.

Then we conclude every episode
with one call to action.

That means.

So that means you're going to get ideas
for tactics to use

and your company's marketing.

And Aimtal,
we are an integrated marketing agency.

We specialize in building marketing
processes and strategies for companies.

And then we launch their first marketing
campaigns

and program so well,
we always like to show a little bit of

how the sausage is made,
as I like to say, in each episode.

So, you get a little bit of that.

But for today's episode

that we have lined up for you

is all about the current and future
state of content marketing and SEO.

Definitely a very spicy topic
in the industry in 2024.

So we're I'm really excited
to dive into it.

But as I mentioned, let's kick off
with some brief introductions.

Do you want to want to kick us off?

Want to start first? Tucker.

Sure. Hi, everybody.

Tucker Delaney, one growth
marketing lead at Aimtal, working

on, high level marketing strategies
all the way down to nitty gritty campaigns

and reporting for HubSpot, LinkedIn,
Google and everything in between.

So happy to be here, as always with you,
Janet and Emily.

Excited to chat with you as well.

I'd love to pass it over to you.

Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Emily.

I'm actually a fellow New Englander,
like Janet and Tucker, but I'm now

based Colorado.

And yeah, as Tucker

said,
I'm the senior content manager at Aimtal.

I've been with the team
for a number of years now.

And I've worked on a number of different
client

accounts,
ranging from B2B product software to,

the health and wellness
industry to emerging tech solutions.

So kind of have seen, seen it all.

And I focus on content strategy,
social media,

basically anything to do with words
is what I like to say.

And yeah, I'm just really excited
to be here and talk

about content and SEO.

Excellent. Thanks, Tiger.

Thanks, Emily.

Excited to chat with you both,
our fellow New Englanders.

We'll see if our Boston accents
come on at any point in the episode.

So as I mentioned, we're

going to get into the weeds on how content
marketing and SEO are evolving,

especially with chatbots, generative
AI entering the chat.

Really kind of taking the industry
by storm over the past couple of years.

So you'll learn and get our hot takes on
the biggest disruptors to SEO performance.

And it's generative AI.

Types of content
you should prioritize, especially.

We want to talk a lot about video.

We create a lot of video content

and talent for our clients and manage
a lot of YouTube channels for clients.

So, definitely want to share a little bit

of our expertise around that
and how you can start to incorporate video

into your marketing programs
in the next year.

As well as definitely,
I think we will need to take and

we'll have to talk about Tucker and Emily
of creating channel specific content.

Especially in the age of zero
click tactics.

And as I mentioned, we can we'll provide
a couple of examples just to contextualize

a lot of what we're talking about
and the research, and learnings

so that we've had and just others in
the industry are seeing as well.

So a lot of ground to cover, but I love to
always just get a little personal,

with our guests,

I feel like Tucker and I were sharing
little, tidbits about ourselves.

So why don't you kick it off?
Since you're,

Maybe we could start with you.

License here.

This is your first time on the show.

One of our special guests.

And since all of our background.

Fun fact, myself, Tucker, and Emily,

we all started our careers
in marketing as copywriters.

So my question is,
what's the weirdest or most

random company or brand or, like, product
you've ever done?

Maybe not weird,
but maybe something random.

People would be surprised
that we work in B2B.

Feel like we work.

A lot of tech companies, but

is there any one that jumps out to you
that you're like,

oh yeah, that was kind of an interesting
and somewhat difficult one to write for.

In your career as a copywriter?

Yeah, such a fun question.

I feel like there's so many things
I could say, but one that popped into

my mind is I many years ago wrote

copy for it was like a smart home feature

where it was a built in intercom
in your home.

So like,
you could be sitting in your living room

and you could press a button and you could
talk to someone like a floor or two

above you and communicate with them via
an intercom, which I guess is a thing.

And like really big houses.

But I had never heard of a thing.

So yeah, I can't on my cell phones.

I wanna use the intercom. Exactly.

Yeah.

So that was my first kind
of, experience writing copy for,

like, for smart home,
which felt really random, but it was fun.

What about yours?

Tucker, do you have one
that comes to mind?

Oh, that's so funny.

I'm like, because you just jog my memory
back in the 90s, I think

before cellphones,
we did have an intercom because we had it.

Yeah.

In your house, Jen and we were up, and me
and my brother's on the third floor.

So the my back dinner, you come on.

Oh, my gosh, maybe I'm late to the game.

That's so funny.

Yeah, well, we made a comment.
I feel like that was only a few years ago.

You said I think it made a comeback
or just kind of.

Yeah. They're back. Yeah. Wow.

Epic.

Well, as you both know,
I have a background

in doing marketing for Broadway theater
before I switched to B2B.

But that also kind of

included Off Broadway
and sometimes off off, off off Broadway.

So there was some very interesting

theatrical things that I,

did marketing for one of them was a dinner
theater show.

I think it was.

You went to the show,

you got a meal, and then you also got to
watch Shakespeare, which I think

is awesome, but I don't actually know that
I went to the show.

But I did marketing for that.

And I remember writing a tagline,
said, okay, you're going in a show,

you're eating a meal, and you're getting
to watch some meaty Shakespeare.

So my tagline was, great
theater must be consumed and

you're pretty proud of that.

Back in the day.

You should be proud of that.

Yeah. Claim to fame right there.

What about the interesting experience?

Yeah.

I try to keep on.

Here's what's on the cutting room
floor from.

There's probably a lot of worse puns.

Yeah.

What about you, Janet?

Most random, kind of company
you ever did copywriting for it?

Okay, the definitely a good amount.

So I worked at a couple of agencies
before starting Aimtal.

You know, building up my career,
getting a ton of experience.

And one of the agencies

I worked with, there were a lot of,
like, B2C companies that we worked with.

So, you know, business consumer,

and the one that stands out to me

and I was like going
in my kind of archives of my mind.

And I was like,
oh, that's pretty hilarious.

It was actually a Harley
Davidson store in Daytona, Florida.

And like, I literally wrote ad
copy for, like,

Google ads and like billboards,
like we created billboards

with, like to get people
to, like, come to the Harley store.

And they also did like, if, you know,
like if you ever heard of like Bike Week,

it's like huge is like
one of the biggest events ever in Daytona.

And so we like helped create the ads,

like the billboards
and the promotion for our clients to get

people to, like, come by their store
on the way to like, Bike Week.

So that was pretty wild.

it's pretty amazing

when you start to, like,
really understand, like niche audiences.

And I wouldn't even actually say
like motorcycle like groups are niche.

They're pretty big.

But at the same time, back then

for me, I was like,
I didn't even know this existed.

I'm from Boston, but it was pretty wild.

Yeah, it's always so fun
just getting to know

a slice of life
or an audience that you like.

Never really had much connection for me.

Like,
all right, let me get inside your head.

So, yeah, we can.

Yeah, we'll talk a little bit.

I think that's definitely a lot of, like,
kind of SEO at the core of.

So really just trying
to understand your audience

and what they're, they're interested in.

So from our days of writing home

to Broadway to,

biker group copywriting

and trying to get people to be interested
in, I would say in our career,

we definitely have seen content SEO
go through some major transformations.

Even just in the past couple of years.

the goal remains the same is kind of what
we're what I was just explaining,

is like, regardless of this,
what we'll get into, people are, you know,

you need to create content and information
that serves that specific audience.

I think at the end of the day,
that hasn't changed.

But as I mentioned, let's start talking
about how I really has kind of,

you know, transformed

just fairly short amount of time.

I think I to put some 70 perspective
that, like Jen

and I was like released to the public
just in November 2022.

So at the time of this recording,
it's November 2024.

So I'll

just kind of share this first research
just to kind of

give us a starting point
and then Emily and Tucker,

so let you guys jump in
and share your perspectives,

kind of where we've been, where
we're going.

But this here is a study
by SARS, in September 2024.

So pretty recently conducted by Coleman
Park is research.

And it says here is the extent
to which marketing executives

worldwide are using generative
AI for marketing activities.

And they think it looks like they did.

This probably started
in July 2024, release in September.

But what's very fascinating,
the top line here is that 10%

of people are using gen
AI for marketing in

I fully implemented, so only 10% of people
that they surveyed here

are actually like
that's pretty small, honestly.

And then the next one is 65% are using

gen AI for marketing,
but haven't yet fully implemented it.

Maybe they're like started
testing experimenting.

Like we can definitely identify with that.

In our clients.

And then the kind of fall the following

two here, are not yet using it or not

using it at all, but they intend to
in the next like year to two years.

And that's makes up
25% of people surveyed.

So I think this is fascinating
because you know, you always hear

and you see online on LinkedIn everywhere
you go, it's all about AI.

Any conference
you go to, every sessions about AI.

And it's easy to feel really behind
and like overwhelmed

by all these like constant changes.

So I think that's the point of why
we created Call to Action, call

to action, the

the show to like kind of help share
this information, give insights,

make it a little bit easier

to take some action on something where
you don't feel like it to boil the ocean.

But we still think this is important
because it's been two years

and I think some people may feel behind,
but in reality or not,

I think we still don't know
all the things we need to know.

Like we're not coming on here and saying
that we're like experts in generative AI.

But what we are doing is having opinion,
learning, understanding,

trying to be transparent about the ways

that this is having an impact,
how what trends we're seeing.

And I think that's really important
for marketers

and for everyone to just be like,
okay, what are you seeing?

What's going on? How are you using this?

So curious.

I know that, you know, industry
leaders are doing all this research,

and trying to make it more visible.

And there was this recent report by Search
Engine Journal.

So curious.

Emily,
if you want to kind of talk through this

because there was a little bit of a deeper
beginning, we're going to go down

the rabbit hole like immediately
let's let's get into it.

Yeah. Yeah.

So kind of coming off of,
the research that you just showed Janet,

Search Engine Journal surveyed
marketers on what they believe

will be the biggest disruptors
to SEO performance in the next few years.

And kind of, unsurprisingly, the top,
response was generative AI and search.

Or as they are shortening it here,

which we'll dive into a little bit
more in a minute.

That took the number one spot
followed by AI generated content.

So, you know, it's clear like this
shows that,

AI's role in search and in content

marketing is really on everybody's radar.

And it really is starting to kind of like,
reshape the way that we think about our

SEO strategies and content moving forward.

So, yeah,

we're going to dive into kind of,
you know, how marketers can start

to approach their content strategy
strategies a little bit differently.

And, you know, maybe
diversify your content

a little bit more throughout this episode.

But yeah,

I just thought this was super interesting
that this was kind of predicted,

you know, about a year ago.

And now it's coming to the forefront

where it actually
is really impacting performance.

So yeah, Emily, one thing off the bat,
can you just help us like

define our terms a little bit.

So like you know
these top two of generative AI

and search versus AI generated content.

Explain to us what what's the difference
between those two.

Yeah good call I know I feel like there's
so many acronyms used in marketing.

So yeah, let's break it down. So yes.

So or search generative experience

which is referred to in this chart here.

And the AI overview

which you might have seen just doing
your own Google searches recently

are basically iterations
of the same feature in Google.

So GE or search gender
generative experience

was sort of the first rendition,
I guess, of AI being used in search.

And earlier on this year, like mid

mid 2024, Google actually branded
this feature where you know, when you type

something into Google, it'll show
you kind of like an AI generated snippet.

They branded this feature
into being called AI overview,

which I think personally is a much better,

more straightforward
way to explain what it's doing.

I was like the, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And so basically what all this means
is, Google is using AI to scan

all of kind of
like the highest ranking articles

and pull snippets
from those articles to compile,

kind of like a, a summary for people
who are searching for different,

search terms,
which kind of goes into the whole zero

click content, which we'll touch on
a little bit later as well.

And then,
yeah, in terms of AI generated content,

I feel like, you know, ChatGPT is

kind of like the first thing
that comes to mind for this one.

It's basically content
that is generated with either fully by

or with the help of AI,
using machine learning models,

and to just kind of like keep it simple.

This can mean that, you know, an AI tool
like ChatGPT can draft articles

for you, product descriptions, summaries,
all sorts of different things.

And, you know,
this can kind of help you get a,

you know, an initial idea off the ground.

But it shouldn't be used to just,
you know, completely

write your content for you.

It should it should
still be edited with a human touch.

But those are kind of the main differences
between AI generated content

and AI overviews or stream.

But for the purpose of this presentation,
we're going to refer to it

as AI overviews or IO.

And we're talking about using search.

Yeah.

Thanks,
Anthony. That's helpful to understand.

Yeah.

I think that's also just like it's
helpful to hear because it's just

everything's changed
so rapidly and quickly and

it's all to keep up with, honestly.

So what's fascinating, I actually so
I was doing some further research

and I was just scrolling through LinkedIn,
of course, and I came across,

this other, report by Kevin and Digg.

I don't know

your name correctly, but anyways, Kevin,
shout out to you for doing some research.

He shared on Search Engine Journal
and I think what the main

what we'll show and talk about next
is that with the

AI overviews, what we're seeing
is that like people, there's less clicks.

Going to a website
page is really like when you like

when you see an AI overview,
it's pretty much giving you the answer.

And like that's kind of the point,

making it so easy for someone to like,
they're searching in Google

pretty much like asking the question
and they get the answer right away.

And then if they wanted to click through,
they could.

But what's happening
and a lot of the conversation in

the industry has been like,
you're not going to see that.

You're going to start to see like drops
in traffic to your

to your own website
and even like other channels.

So however, in this research,

that they did, the top domains that like,

I always pull from were so this is,
this is what I'm talking about.

This is the
the large analysis of AI overviews.

It was like 44GB of data, which is insane

to actually company called server
to like pull all this together.

A little bit difficult to see.

But the first these like kind of spikes
here in the beginning of the chart of,

the top cited domains in

AI or use was YouTube

and LinkedIn, which is fascinating,
and then followed by

like a handful of health and like
medical sites Facebooks on here, Amazon.

Wikipedia is also in here.

So when I saw this,
I was like interesting.

This is like very
I put this on LinkedIn as well.

And I'm very fascinated by this
because if anything, I think

it's very much showing that if you're
going to invest in marketing channels,

then like in 2025, especially

like YouTube and LinkedIn, better
be at the top of the list,

because that's where that's like
the content that's being like cited.

This is like another kind of like look at,
another look at kind of the data here.

So as I mentioned,
like YouTube, Wikipedia,

YouTube again, LinkedIn, Google.

what this is telling us is like
it's being cited, but it's not necessarily

like a guarantee that someone's
going to like click through.

I think also what we're seeing

is like it's getting harder and harder
for your content to rank organically

to show up in these AI overviews,
like there's a good amount of competition.

But the signals are still there

that if you're creating content
in the right websites and channels

and you have more of an opportunity
to, you know, be

at that in AI or V or be cited.

So, let's
I think we should let's like unpack this

a little bit more talking normally

because there's a lot here I don't
I think we're all trying to figure out

like what
exactly this means, how you go. But,

Chris,

just to kind of get your take on this
a little bit further.

Yeah. For sure.

I feel like maybe let's take a look
at a search query and actually.

Right, we're talking AI overuse
and everyone's like, I've.

Yeah, not everyone knows what
we're actually talking about.

Totally. Yeah.

So yeah, I feel like taking a look
at an actual search query and showing,

you know, the two different ways
that audience groups might,

you know, engage with an AI overview
versus click into your site might help

paint, you know, a clearer picture of what
might be impacting your site traffic.

So if we're looking at this example,
what is CRM

and kind of analyze it
from two different perspectives.

And like I was saying how your audience
might be interacting with AI overviews.

So you can see like what is the IEM?

That's a pretty broad search term, right?

So this you know, the AI overview
that you see here says purpose.

How it works, benefits, features, this
AI overview.

You know, for someone who
maybe they're a cloud security developer

who's just trying to understand the basics
of what SIM is, what it even stands

for, just get like a basic definition
about what it is.

This might be enough.

Like this AI overview might serve,
you know, the purpose of their search,

and maybe they don't need to click
into one of these, you know, articles

like listed on the right here.

And this is kind of the reality
that we're living in now is,

you know, marketers will lose traffic
to their websites

for these simple search terms,
that maybe in the past would be big,

you know, reasons why they

were getting a lot of organic search
traffic to their websites.

But I think another way to think about it
is, let's say

you take someone in a similar role or
the same role, a cloud security developer

who maybe just started a job
at a cloud security company.

So something like CRM
would be pretty important for them

to have a more in-depth
understanding of and

correct me if I'm wrong,
but I feel like this AI overview doesn't

necessarily provide
a super in-depth, complex answer to where

if you're really needing to like, get
into the nitty gritty details about SIM,

I still feel like they would need to click
into one of these articles to to do like

additional research and really become
an expert on that subject.

So you can kind of see like depending
on the level of knowledge and like

how in-depth, you know, your audience
needs to go on, a certain subject

might dictate whether or not you get

their traffic to your website.

Yeah.

So yeah, it is kind of, you know, a harsh
reality of of how AI is impacting search.

But we are going to go into,
you know, in a little while

how you can kind of reshape parts
of your content strategy, strategy

to make sure that you can still, you know,
get get that organic search traffic

and also ways that, you know,
you can use other channels to,

you know, boost your brand awareness
and get that thought leadership

and all of the things
that you might have been hoping for that,

you know, organic
search on Google will be doing. So.

Yeah.
So your take on this, Tucker, is yeah.

You're
you're not wrong at all, Emily. No need.

Well, and I love what you said.

Emily, come at us.

Come in

the YouTube two perspectives that I love,

the simple version

where someone's going to look at this
to literally know what is CPM

and what does it stand for, a cloud
infrastructure entitlement management.

Great.

But a lot of people we work in B2B,
these topics are complex.

A lot of people are going to want to dig
in deeper.

You're not going to get examples.

You're not going to get diagrams,
you're not going to get like

and explain it to me
like I'm five kind of thing here.

So I feel like this is like almost
explaining to me like I'm five versus

five, one of that.

But then it's like,
but that's only going to take you so far.

Yeah.

You're not going to get

a lot of context for me
when I dive into these kind of terms,

which is almost every day,
I need to be like,

show me example, show me more, you know?

So I think there's still going to be
a lot of people who do need to click into

to topics like this, but I think you've
acknowledged a really important reality,

Emily, is that for the very simple answer,
simple queries,

people are just going to get it from
the I o and not click and

but I think

the the other half of that is,
to borrow a phrase that you said, Emily,

before the call, the
IO can be a great gateway for the people

who want to do deeper research,
who really do want to discover

and get a full
understanding of these topics.

So what I think this
this means what this portends

for marketers
is for them to start asking themselves,

what are those complex
topics related to my product or related to

my services, that buyers are going
to actually click in on?

I'm not going to get traffic for that

simple search query anymore,
but what are those more complex,

richer topics that I want to make sure I'm
creating content for so that, you know,

I can still get traffic
and I can show up in these aios.

So, that we're still having a presence
there.

I think that inform your content strategy
is is really critical.

Yeah.

And I feel like that should be the goal,
no matter what.

Right, is to be creating really in-depth

informational content
that really, you know, serves like maybe

it's a niche purpose, but it really helps
answer your audience's questions.

I feel like that to kind of
be like the baseline,

no matter what
when you're creating content.

So that one trend has
that hasn't changed over the years.

Like this is what I want to change.

But also one thing that hasn't changed
and shouldn't change, right?

Yeah, totally.

And I feel like, you know,
when you're thinking about an AI overview,

you can kind of think of it
the same way you might approach

like a featured snippet.

Because if you

think about it, a featured snippet,
which is, you know, Google before

I just pulling a snippet out
from probably the top ranking article

and just showing it up
front in the search,

you can kind of use a similar mindset here
where if Google is choosing a snippet

from your article to feature in the
AI overview,

while you know, yes, it might,
and it probably will likely result

in fewer visits to your website,
it means you're doing your job.

You know, at the end of the day
like that, it's showing that your content

is being recognized
as the most helpful, the most impactful.

And so that at the end of the day,
shows that, you know, you are connecting

with your audience
in the ways that you should be

and answering their questions
and solving their needs.

So it's kind of,
you know, it's a balancing act.

You take the good with the
bad or the negative.

Yeah,

interesting.

I think my mind just keeps going back
to what I shared before is like,

even though is your AI,

which I agree with, you guys are like,
get to create the helpful content.

What people are looking for
are that intent.

But we can't ignore the fact
that it's like

Google's is not driving as much traffic
to websites or not, or like

they're not ranking like the mom and pops
of the world anymore, unfortunately.

Like it's just becoming
it's still just really difficult.

Like, I feel like even for Aimtal,
like we used to rank for like really like

difficult keywords.

And we see that reduction, reduction.

But when we invest in like channels
like LinkedIn and YouTube,

that's where we're starting to see
like a lot of performance.

So I think what's interesting
when my show before is that, like

there's
still there's many pieces of this puzzle

and one is like,
where are you creating that content?

And I think, obviously
you always want to be on your own website.

It's like you're,
you know, it's your company's home.

You want people to be aware of your brand,
come and explore.

But really they're going to find you
first on other channels.

So let's let's focus on kind of our,

our, our top channel,
which is definitely YouTube.

And so we've been advocating
and saying this for years.

We've been creating like YouTube
content, video series and content

for clients for years
and really like using that as,

like the core of a
client's, like, SEO strategy.

So as I shared

earlier, YouTube is one of the top domains
that's

being like cited in AI overviews
and just traffic overall.

And what's actually like another kind of
like just a zoom out

for a moment again, this,

research study here, it's from Nielsen.

They, shared it.

It's actually from September 2024 or July,
and they released it in September again.

But it's saying here, share time stamp TV

in the US by media company is at the top.

It's like above Walt Disney.

It goes,
YouTube is Walt Disney, NBC, Netflix,

Fox, Paramount, Warner Brothers, Amazon.

AMC at the bottom. Hallmark.

You know it's I
this is like fascinating to me because

I think a lot of people, you know
are maybe a little cold on YouTube or not

saying they sell very much
like for niche audiences, but very much

I think that we're just seeing time
and time again, and it just

every year just proves a point is like,
that's a channel to invest in.

It is technically the second largest
search engine.

It's YouTube is owned by Google. Right.

So there are a lot

of reasons why videos are essential
to our marketing strategies.

I think one thing to
and we talk a lot about this in episode

three of Call to Action.

So we dive in much deeper myself,
Tucker and Dylan and our team,

of why you should be investing
and creating video.

I think one thing is like
video is very multifaceted.

So you can take that content,
put it on YouTube,

you can turn it into a blog,
article, website

like article, turn into social content.

But I think the main thing is that,
like video can hold someone's

attention and increases that dwell time
on a site or other channels.

So back over to you, Emily Tucker.

I'm curious to hear, like why
I just rattled off like a bunch of reasons

why YouTube is the right channel to like,
invest in and content creator.

I think people get nervous. It is.

It does take a lot of effort to create
video content, not gonna lie, but curious.

Like what you to think
and how companies can start

investing in video content
if they haven't already,

or what they really should consider
if they already started.

Yeah, totally.

Well, I think to start off I the other day
I read a really interesting psychology

report by Frontiers in Psychology
where they conducted a study

that showed that short form video
in particular

does a really great job
of not only engaging your audience

but kind of inciting, like,
an emotional response from customers,

which I feel like is really interesting,
but also it makes sense.

And I feel like
video is a really great way to captivate

people rather than just having them
read a blog post.

And because of this,
you know, with the use of video,

you can really hold people's attention
for longer, especially, you know,

let's say
you embed a video in a blog post.

That video might be the reason
why they it's called like dwell time,

but the reason why
they stay on that blog post for longer,

which can help
boost your rankings in in Google's eyes.

So like Janet said,

we dive into a lot of this
in, previous call to action episode,

but we kind of figured

it would be helpful to just like recap
why video is so, so important.

But yeah, in addition to kind of,
you know, increasing dwell time,

which is a pretty significant factor

in Google's eyes
for ranking a piece of content.

You know, marketers
have a really great opportunity to engage

their customers in different ways
with different types of video.

So, you know, product
demos, explainer videos,

webinars, interviews and, like,

there's so many opportunities
that video can provide.

And really, with the right
kind of like SEO optimization tactics,

you can really help boost your video
in terms of ranking on Google,

and help get back

maybe some of that traffic that you're
losing due to an AI overview search.

So if you wouldn't mind pulling up

Janet,
there's a chart by yes, by Wise Owl.

And you can see that
the percentage of marketers who report

video marketing
contributing to an increase in website

traffic, has jumped from 55% in 2015

to 86% in 2024, which is a massive jump.

And so you can see that a lot of marketers
do, you know, kind of vouch for the fact

that video marketing is contributing
to a rise in their website traffic.

So when you're thinking about, you know,
what are some ways where I can kind of,

you know, go to battle with AI overviews?

Video is a great way to kind of maybe
like I said, get back some of that traffic

that you might be missing
out on, due to AI overviews.

So yeah.

Interesting.

Go ahead.

Tucker, I feel like we do a lot of,
you know, video development

for a lot of our clients.

And part of,
you know, the tactics that we use

is developed in developing, video chapters
to kind of like, break up the segments

of a video and, and help out with that
SEO optimization factor.

Would you mind kind of like
walking us through one of the,

examples that we've done for a client?

Absolutely. Yeah.

And you said so many great things there.

Like, I'll try to weave back to them.

But I think if we think about the the goal
of this conversation and where SEO is

headed, I want to I want to think about it
kind of in two ways.

One is bringing video to SEO and
then the other is bringing SEO to video.

So I want to walk through
both of the things.

Sounds a little repetitive, redundant,

but there's a
there's some really key differences.

So let's talk about

how do we bring video to SEO and touch on
some of the things you just talked about.

So if we go back to this example
we were looking at that

you were showing earlier, Emily,
where we're looking at what is this M

and you already pointed out,
you talked about the AI overview

and how short a portion of this audience
is just going to get their answer

and move on.

But another portion of this audience

that wants a richer, deeper
explanation is going to click in.

And I love that comparison
you made of these essentially

being the kind of next new stage
of featured snippets, right?

So people are still going to click in
to the links that are right at the top.

Now, what's over on the right?

The very first one is an article called

What is Cloud
Infrastructure entitlement Management.

So here
you can see why they need articles.

All right.

Exactly. So that's right at the top.

That's an article

from Prisma Cloud Slash Palo Auto Networks
that Inter helped craft.

Now why is that the number one article.

Well if were to click in there
you will see that in this article

there is a video embedded
and this is also a video that we helped

Prisma Cloud create.

But this video is essentially enriching
the article

because it's a explain it to me
like I'm five about what is cloud

infrastructure entitlement management

getting into the nitty gritty of what
it is, delivering really quality content.

We know Google likes this.

We know AI overviews like this.

It's giving the audience
a deeper, richer experience.

When they click into an article.

You're not just getting text
and you're not don't like it too.

I think that's like the other part of
it is like people.

It's not just about the technologies.

Like credit for the person like that.

It's going through and they're like,
all right, I've read a lot.

And then you hit the button, you're like,

oh, cool,
I could watch this in five minutes. Great.

That's a great point.

Yeah. Google
and I like this because people like it.

Because it is the intent of what people
are really trying to understand.

So by by adding video
into your SEO strategy,

by adding it into your articles, you're
essentially increasing the chances that,

you know, on the one hand, you're going
to show up higher on these AI overviews.

You're also just increasing the chance

that potential buyers are going
to find your article and ultimately visit

your website, which is the whole goal
of SEO in the first place.

So that's why I think
really bringing video into your SEO

strategy is going to be key
and is really key right now.

I think the other point is like,
it doesn't

always
just have to be like an explainer video.

What you're saying is like

it can be a range of videos
to product demos, how to use webinars.

Interviews like this doesn't have to
just be one type.

We will see all of them effective.

So like it's really kind of like
you can figure out

what your video works for,
your brand company like campaigns as well.

I think is important.

Like it's just pretty much like
just do it.

Yeah.

And that's one of like
the positive outcomes I think of AI.

Right?

Is that it's a little more sophisticated
and picking up on intent

rather than what keywords
did you stuff at the top of the article?

It like can pull out of a webinar

or like write demo and say,
oh, this is really good content.

We should surface this.

So I think that's just what you're saying.

Yeah.

What you're saying is like, it's not
it doesn't always have to be.

So on the nose of the exact short
or long tail keyword, right.

It can be kind of or like almost like the,
like the universe around that.

More so. Exactly.

Now, having said that, like we talked

about how you can apply
SEO to video item number two,

I am going to show you a bit of more of an
on the nose example.

But I think that is important
because when we think about, okay,

where is SEO going?

How do we apply SEO to video?

This is a pretty good example of that.

So if we Google that same question
we're just going to talk about

cloud infrastructure,
entitlement management. That's all that.

If you Google that
and then you look in the video

tab of Google,
what pops up the same result.

So why is that?

The reason for that
is because we went ahead

and applied
SEO best practices to this video.

So on the one hand, that means as we're
talking about creating really rich quality

content of course, but also there's
some really technical things that we did.

And you mentioned this earlier, Emily, of,

looking at chapters and

chapter titles and using an SEO strategy
for those chapter titles.

So you can see Google didn't
just pull up the video,

it pulled up different key
moments in the video,

which are actual chapter titles
that we added into this video.

That's YouTube optimization right there.

You know, what are solutions? Solutions?

What are the functions of CIA?

What are the benefits?

And as a result, now all of that
is getting surfaced into Google.

And as you said earlier, Janet,

YouTube is basically the number
two biggest search engine in the world.

So we can't just treat YouTube
and treat videos as pieces of content.

We also have to start thinking about them
as things

people are searching for
and approach them from a search up.

Well, I also like this example to you
because it's like you're setting it up

so that whichever way someone discovers
that they're finding the other.

So if you're going to the video first,
you can then drive forward

into the article,
into the website, or vice versa.

If you find the video first you tune in
or you find sorry, find the article first

and then you see the video.

So it's like very much connecting them

and integrating all this content together
is very empowering because it also shows

just kind of like the depth and breadth
of what your company are.

The thought leaders in your company
know about these topics.

Integrated approach. It works,

I love it.

And before we move on, Emily,
you know even more about like,

the nitty gritty, I think of YouTube
channel optimization than I do.

So I'd love to pass it to you
for a second.

Can you just share a little bit more about
when we get into the weeds?

What what are some things
people should consider, when it comes

to, optimizing for for YouTube
and optimizing their videos for search.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I feel like there's a few
just kind of like basic best practices.

You can do that.

Don't take a ton of effort but really
help, you know, improve your videos.

SEO rankings.

So having an optimized
title is really important.

So, you know, having it be about the topic

that you're talking about,
maybe a little bit descriptive.

If you have something like a really brand
ID series, that's that's great.

But I would maybe, you know,
if it's titled something like a little bit

obscure, make sure to also include
some more descriptive keywords

in there to make sure that you're

hitting on the actual topic
that you're talking about in the video.

Not it, I guess.

Insert interrupt MLA.

But just further to that point,
because we saw this example pulled up,

I think descriptions in those keywords
that's also getting pulled in right here.

Like that's basically the subhead here
that we're looking at.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So optimizing a video description
does kind of act

as that sub header
that shows up in Google.

And that can yeah, that can be another way
that you can

improve
SEO is writing a thorough description.

You know, I know that video does take
a bit of, you know, effort to develop.

But if you can spend the extra
like ten minutes to write

a really descriptive description,
that can really go a long way.

So not only that, but tags.

Tags are another way that you can add
in some quick keywords that,

allows Google and YouTube to

understand what your video is about.

And then I feel like the biggest one
that we've seen really make a difference

is our transcripts.

So actually including a transcript

of the talking points
in the voiceovers of your video

and including that when you upload it to
YouTube can really make a huge difference.

Because if you think about it, you know,
if you record even

like a 30 minute long interview,
kind of like what we're doing now,

think about how many words we've spoken
during however long

the 41 minutes that, you know,
the three of us have been talking.

That is a wealth of topic information
that for Google's eyes,

like going back
to what you were saying about intent.

Google is getting better at understanding
the intent behind content.

So including a transcript
with all of the amazing things that

your speakers or whoever is talking about
can be really, really useful.

And then other things like

backlinks, crush, cross promotion,
like Janet was saying,

you know, integrating your video

marketing across
different platforms and channels.

Yeah. And shameless plug.

I will say Aimtal has a really great
YouTube optimized guide on our website

that dives into all of this
in much greater detail.

So if you are looking on, you know,
looking to really kind of like bolster

your YouTube SEO best practices,
I definitely recommend looking at that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I know we could talk there too.

I think is like

overall we're saying is that
you want to be as visible as possible.

And then that example
we showed for our client prison card

is actually like a whole series.
So we just took a clip of,

of a playlist here.

But, this is really important as like,
not just kind of maybe doing

like one off things, but really starting
to build around a whole series of videos,

will help with people finding
tailoring those titles that right audience

targeting that audience, giving them
what they what they're like looking for

in a range of kind of similar
or topic areas, but kind of going deep.

As you can see here, there's what is this?

But there's a range of cloud security
topics that they cover in this episode.

I think I'll add on to that
part of it too,

like kind of that fuller picture
as you were touching on.

Yeah, I think just really kind of,

hitting it home that in order

to make sure your videos are visible
to your audience,

you do have to kind of go
the extra step to make them SEO optimized.

And that's kind of the goal, right?

Is you want your content to be visible.

So yeah, any way you can do that,
I think, really improve your performance,

especially in kind of the age of
AI for sure.

All right.

So sorry to touch on
like we talked about the what the how

but and we're touching on like here
and there like the who and I think that's

I love stuff
and like go kind of round out of like

who is this content for.

You know, we really wouldn't be good
marketers if we weren't pretty much hyper

focus on the audience that we're trying
to, like, attract, educate, entertain.

And really, when it comes out, I think
we all see this, but it's just so true.

Like, don't create content
just for Google.

Like, it's just not it
hasn't been the way to do it.

And it's not.

I think we can always figure out
we shared some tips.

Obviously, there are definitely ways
that you can optimize your content for SEO

and for it to like, rank and show up.

But at the end of the day, like it
really, truly is going to be about

like what you create for the people,
not just the search engine.

let's kind of I think I'm curious, like
kind of like get a little bit just kind of

round out this episode of talking about
like the audience and like where they are.

And kind of coming back to what I shared
is like, there are specific channels.

And when I think of it, it's like

we need to create the content
where that audience is consuming it.

Right.

So we're talking a lot about YouTube
and LinkedIn.

If you're listening this episode, like,
I don't know if YouTube and LinkedIn

is exactly like the right channel for you
if you're in B2B, it probably is.

But so I

would, let's kind of touch on this
if you want to kind of,

take us into this part of the other
part of the jigsaw puzzle.

Tucker.

I've just, you know, this

how you create the content
for your audience and,

like,
how you kind of what that looks like with,

kind of genealogy
and this whole zero click concept.

Yeah. So your click right.

And we got to give a shout out
to Amanda Natividad at Spark Toro

who coined that phrase zero click content
I think I saw on LinkedIn the other day.

Her in her profile
it says I said zero click content first.

So she also started back
and I like looked at her original article.

And it was July of 2022. So like

rewind as I just

said, like generally I can
I was at the public in November of 2022.

So like they were already
seeing these trends

before I even came out,
which is mind blowing.

Absolutely.

So and I want to go back
to what you shared earlier, Janet, about

what are the top places
that these AI overviews are pulling

from to create their own overviews,
LinkedIn and YouTube.

So what? That tells me one right away.

That's
where really important conversations

are happening on those channels, right?
That's one.

But I think number two is

when we think about just awareness
and driving awareness for a product

for service, there's a really big shift
in what's happening.

Traditionally, I think people were using
channels like LinkedIn and YouTube

as mechanisms
to drive traffic to their website,

and they're like,
can we get people to our website?

That's a win. That's great.

That is nice.

Which is like makes it obviously right.

But right, I mean that's a that's
but right that way everyone wants.

But it's just it's not the answer.

It's just not how it works really anymore.

Unfortunately if you can get it right,
it's still would be part of the strategy.

But the reality is, as you're saying,
is that these channels like LinkedIn

and YouTube are often
the end state of where the conversations

in the research about your product
and about your services are happening.

So if you're still thinking,
oh, I've always used

these channels just to get people
to my website, as opposed to

these are on these channels
is where I need to have this conversation.

You got to rethink that.

You got to find a way to Max
email's engagement on those channels

itself as well.

And I think that's a really key change
that we're seeing happening right now.

Yeah.

So this graphic
I just pulled up kind of just

emphasizes what you're explaining, Tucker,
is that like the platforms,

especially Google,
like they want you to stay on Google.

They like LinkedIn wants you
like they make money

because you stay on the platform and like,
you don't go off to like other sites.

So they there really is no,
there's not a ton of incentive for them

to be driving you off the feed,
really at the end of the day.

So I think this is a really

there's a lot in here, but it's like so
zero click content on major web platforms.

So those of you were saying

like there's all these platforms,
they will allow you to like use links.

You can put links in anything and drive
people to like other places and promotion.

But what Amanda mapped out on this
at Spark Turo is like,

you're going to benefit from a zero

click approach pretty much on everything
besides Pinterest and Quora,

because those ones are
they don't like the algorithm, doesn't

pretty much like downgrade you
your performance if you're driving people

off of their platform,
that's like the kind of point of it.

But like what we're talking about
Google, YouTube, LinkedIn,

they allow, content to be

like to go out to other places, but,

it's going to

it's really going to you're
not going to be not going to be as visible

if your every single post is like driving
your own website or somewhere else.

I mean, I see that all the time with like,
even just my own personal content.

The ones that don't have links on LinkedIn
now are my top performing posts,

and a lot of people are on
LinkedIn are talking about it,

and kind of like sharing this forward

and showing their own analytics of like
when I didn't include the,

like a article or a link or something,
or they put it in the comments,

but even it's actually kind of fascinating

because even putting things
in the comments now, isn't as effective.

So go kind of,
I guess I'm I'm not gonna lie,

I got a little nervous about this stuff,
but it's also I think that's

the whole point, though, is that, like,
instead of just trying to, like, do

what has always worked, you've got to do
you got to change how you've approached it

and you got to really optimize,
create the content for that channel.

Specifically.

Cool.

So the other thing, just to like drive us
a little bit further,

we can talk about, SEO, Google,
but I'll pull up another one that I found

from spark to share
this one of their articles several times.

I found this through them, but
just kind of wrap up, what we were saying

is that like 96% of web chat webpages
get zero traffic from Google.

That's insane. That's a lot.

Ahrefs did this, study of 14
billion pages, which is a lot of data.

So I think it's very
I think the point we're trying to make

is that if you're you need to create
content for where your audience is online

and then make that channel
specific content and really kind of play

the game of keeping people engaged
on that channel

instead of just trying to constantly
drive them off of it.

So I guess I'm like kind

of circling back,
bring us back a little bit,

of just like how this all

how people can kind of like, think of this
a little bit more holistically,

like the content you're creating and what
this kind of means at the highest level.

Like it's just one more thing
in the context of AI overviews.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So I feel like

since we're talking about audiences now,
I think something that marketers can do

to ensure that they are creating content
that speaks to the audience group

that needs that more in-depth answer
is just doing that, creating content.

Content that does go deeper,
you know, beneath the surface,

and will kind of encourage people
to click into those articles. So,

you know, a quick answer from

I won't be driving traffic,
but more complex, useful articles.

Well,
and there's a really nice quote from Ben

Steele, who is the managing editor
at Search Engine Journal.

So I'm just going to,

you know, read this quote really quickly
because I feel like it really summarizes

and encapsulates, encapsulates
everything that we're saying.

So Ben says drawing traffic to on site

content through search will become
significantly more challenging.

With generative,
AI powered search platforms,

content can easily be produced,
and readily served.

If I can write it and I can serve it
to users instead of a link

kind of going back to that zero
click concept.

Then he goes on to say, Generative
AI offers powerful efficiency tools,

but I don't believe it's
a wholesale answer to content marketing.

And this is where I think
he really hits it on the nose.

I predict an increased demand
for verifiably human content

about deeper and more complex topics,
and I feel like that

last piece really summarizes
everything that we're saying.

And so in order to dive
deep into the complex topics

that your audience cares about,

you really have to understand
your audience,

which kind of goes back to using tools
like spark, Toro,

and what you were mentioning Janet, about,
you know, really understanding

where your audience is behaving online,
what they're talking about, what

they care about.

And, and also like analyzing your own.

Like, I think this is where like

if you don't have access,
like your CRM data or like your audience

and like reporting and understanding,
like how people are like engaging

with your own content
when they come through.

Like that's a huge missed opportunity
because you can just learn from your own

CRM and all all the activity

going on from these people
to try to figure out, okay, what,

what more, what are the gaps that we have
of information to provide to them?

Yeah, absolutely.

I feel like it just is about becoming
an expert on your audience so that you can

then become an expert on the topics
that they're searching for,

and that will naturally lead
to those more in-depth articles

that will result in
an expert search traffic. So,

yeah,

I feel like, you know, marketers,
there's a lot

that we're trying to understand
and consume as things are changing.

But if you really just boil it down
to one thing,

it is to become really,
really, really familiar with your audience

and go from there and really understand
what their challenges and needs are,

and then go really in-depth
on those things so that you can get that

traffic still and provide them
with the actual answers that they need.

and those are easy ways
to kind of like diversify.

Like it's not just blog content, you know,
I feel like right there

and then there's a point
we're trying to make too, is

I don't just think of it as like, oh,
I want my articles to rank.

It's like kind of like articles
are almost like the minimum.

It's like, yeah,
how can you differentiate video?

Right? I mean, social like LinkedIn,
LinkedIn newsletters.

We don't even touch on this.

I mean, we can do an entire episode on it.

I'm like so excited about
LinkedIn newsletters kind of anyways.

But like those are
those actually are starting to like rank

and search engines
and like helping with all of that

visibility and awareness for a brand
which is insane like and really exciting.

Honestly. Totally.

Yeah.

I feel like if you can diversify
where your content lives and the different

types of content you're producing,
you are making your brand more visible.

You have a higher chance of.

Right? So for sure.

Awesome.

Well, we covered a ton.

And I think we're pretty much I'm like,
we're just going to take our own advice

and just get deeper and deeper
into future episodes on these things.

But thank you, Emily, for joining us.

Anyways, our senior project

manager at Aimtal, super
excited to have you on the show.

So all things content marketing, SEO
and the evolution and future

and of course, Tiger, thank you as well
for joining be my co-host here.

So as we always do,

let's close it out with your final

call it call to action to the audience
based on today's topic.

So we'll start with you gambling.

What's your one call to action
to folks listening today?

Yeah.

Good question.

I feel
like if I had to boil it down to one,

it would be, you know, to expect
a decrease in your organic traffic.

But the way that you can kind of,
you know, that all that is or overcome

that is to develop content
for those audience groups

that require a more in-depth answer.

So, you know,
when you're thinking about an AI overview,

you can think about the content
that might serve that,

but you should also really be focusing
on the content that,

you know,
I can't just pull a quick snippet from

that really goes more in-depth
beneath the surface and really

helps your audience
in a more kind of like, complex way.

So that would be mind.

What about you tech companies?

Yeah, you have the top one.

I think we were talking a lot
about diversity, diversifying the channels

where you're publishing content. Right.
So I think that's key.

Obviously, I think investing in video
marketing is really a huge piece of that.

And then I would take that a step further
by saying the next video, you do

think about
taking an SEO approach to that,

and not just a great headline,
but the stuff we talked about today,

what kind of how are you
using an SEO strategy for your chapters?

How are you leveraging the transcript?

How are you really taking a detail
that SEO approach for your videos?

That would be a big CTA for me.

And what about you? Don't.

Oh, I feel like I was going off on that.

I changed my mind.

I think it would come down to creating,
like thinking of it.

Also,
what we were talking about before is like,

where are the opportunities
where someone can find that content.

So like, I think very much creating
that channel specific strategy and then

and then any way that you can like
interconnect that content.

So I really love the example
you provided, Tucker of like

you have the article
with the video embedded, but

also the like video
has like all the links to the articles.

So any channel about your audience
is actually like kind of showing up

and trying to find and discover
this content.

They're able to kind of make
that connection through to your company

and more information
that you're you're creating.

And as you explain
and you go deeper and deeper

so they can start to find
like the breadth and depth of that.

So I think thinking of things

when you're creating channel specific
strategy, I think that's the way to go.

But don't think of it too much.

As of a silo,
I still have that broader perspective of

and make that
connection across everything.

It it all integrated approach.

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

All right.

Well thank you Emily.

Thanks, Tucker.

And thank you all for listening.

So as I mentioned, we're Aimtal.

This is Call to action.

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Thanks, everyone.

To we talked

about paid advertising
specific to LinkedIn ads.

Why you should do manual bidding.

But also then look into ways to do
the automated creative optimizations.

And then third, finally
we talked about how to use automated leads

scoring to organize your leads
and collaborate, you know, uses

create a dashboard,
bring marketing sales together.

And how you can, personalize
those follow ups in those touchpoints.

So yeah, thank you for listening.